Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 15.036
December 7, 2005
1) Henekh Kon (Yvette Metral)
2) Re: Snobbery in Yiddish Literature (Yankev Berger)
3) Re: Snobbery (Larry Rosenwald)
4) Re: Snobbery (Elye Palevsky)
5) kvetch (Faith Jones)
6) kvetch (John V. Burke)
7) Hirsch Reles (Leah Watson)
8) kadatshke? (Michoel Ronn)
9) megayer zayn (Felicitas Payk)
1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: November 28, 2005
Subject: Henekh Kon, Judy (Judyta) Berg and Felix Fibich
I am looking for articles (in Yiddish or English) about H. Kon, J. Berg and
F. Fibich. Kon died in May or June 1972, Berg passed away in 1992. Articles
must have been published in Yiddish newspapers (Forverts, Undzer Shtime,
Undzer veg... or whatever) about these events.20 There was an article,
about Kon, in Forward Aug. 24, 2001, by Issacar Vater - and in Nov 23, 2001
by Chana Mlotek (title: Moyshe Broderson, tsu zayn 45stn yortsayt)
Since I am preparing to pay a tribute to those three great artists and
contributors to the Yiddish culture, I would earnestly appreciate any help
in this matter.
Thanks in advance,
Yvette Metral (Judyta Berg's niece)
2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: November 28, 2005
Subject: Re: Snobbery in Yiddish Literature
Methinks Noyekh Miller is too hasty in his extrapolation.
The classic Yiddish play, 'Serkeleh' by Dr. Shlomo Ettinger, is a set piece
that exposes the foibles and posturing of a family of 'upwardly-mobile
strivers' as well as the dark secrets of their ill-gotten gains.
The interplay of switching between Yiddish and German is indicative of
this. Consider the instance of the daughter of the house, 'Freyde Alteleh,
who prefers to be called 'Fraulein Frederika.'
And this is recognized as perhaps the very first of the Yiddish dramas.
Yankev Berger
3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: November 28, 2005
Subject: Re: Snobbery
As regards Noyekh Miller's point about snobbery - I think that fairly often
in _American_ Yiddish writing, you get some fine observations about how
using English (either in preference to Yiddish, or inside Yiddish), is
"used in the struggle for social status".
That leaves Noyekh's point undisturbed as regards European Yiddish
literature, and I hope specialists in that literature will have something
to say in response to it.
aldos guts
Larry Rosenwald
4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: November 28, 2005
Subject: Re: Snobbery
While evidence of snobbery as wealth-rooted social status may be scant
in Yiddish lit, I believe there is a close parallel in descriptions of
those trying to pass as non-Jews or pretending not to understand
Yiddish often leading to the equivalent of a comedy of manners.
Elye Palevsky
5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: December 2, 2005
Subject: Re: kvetch
It is unfortunate that Leonard Prager's response to Michael Wex's Born to
Kvetch was mediated by a New York Times review. Dr. Prager notes that he
has not read the book, and ascribes to the book "comic distortion" and
stereotyping. But those of us who have read Mr. Wex's book may not find
that distortion or stereotyping in the book itself, although William
Grimes' review in the New York Times was less careful. In fairness, Mr.
Grimes is not a Yiddish specialist. I just re-checked my copy of the book
and cannot find anywhere in Born to Kvetch where Mr. Wex claims the usage
of "kvetsh" to mean complain is anything other than English. A variety
emotional aspects of language usage are discussed in the book, and Mr. Wex
does not soft-peddle the ability of Yiddish to be vile and vicious, the
particular register Dr. Prager seems to want to foreground in his post.
Similarly, those reading Allan Nadler's review in The Forward could easily
come away with the impression that the book is a 300-page rant against
klal-Yidish and those of us who speak it, but Mr. Wex's observations on the
phenomenon are gentler and more nuanced than the impression left by Dr.
Nadler's review. Both reviews are positive but depending on the review you
read you may end up with quite a different impression of the book. A review
by its nature is a response, not a summary. The reviewer is free to take
from a book what he or she wishes and to respond to the part of it he or
she finds most appealing. Having just written that sentence, I must now
forestall any wisenheimers out there on the list to acknowledge that my
very brief review, forthcoming in Canadian Jewish Outlook, will primarily
discuss the chapter of Born to Kvetch which deals with sex. It will also be
positive.
On a general note, I should say I find it increasingly bewildering which
things some Mendelistn find worth fighting about with others. That a book
as good as Born to Kvetch is on bestseller lists should surely fill us with
joy? Mr. Wex undoes some of the misconceptions wrought by the also-funny
but unlinguistic Leo Rosten, and brings to light aspects of the language
that are harder for those of us raised in secular circles to understand,
which can only be good for Yiddish.
Full disclosure: I know and have enormous respect for all the Mendelistn
mentioned above (Dr. Prager only as an email correspondent). Also, by using
the word "wisenheimer" I am not arguing that it is a Yiddish word. Now
please stop bickering.
Faith (Nomi) Jones
6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: December 2, 2005
Subject: Re: kvetch
A tentative observation on Leonard Prager's recent comment:
My mother and grandmother, Yiddish-speakers from Shepetovka
(Volhynia), used "kvetch" both to mean "complain" and to mean
"squeeze;" the way to tell if a piece of fruit was ripe was to "give
it a kvetch."
Also a question: is "farzindikn," in "nit tsu farzindikn" ("no
complaints") cognate with German "suenden" ("sin") or with German
"Sinn" ("sense")?
John V. Burke
7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: 3 December, 2005
Subject: Hirsch Reles
Looking for available Yiddish or English texts of Hirsch Reles, Belarus
poet.
Thanks,
Leah Zazulyer (Watson)
fam_wats@geneseo.edu
8)----------------------------------------------------
Date: 2 December, 2005
Subject: kadatshke?
B"H
Eyner a yid hot letstn mir gezogt az der nomen funem spetsieln tants vos iz
noyeg bay di Yerushalmer religieze yidn heyst a "kadatshke" (nit tsu
farmishn mit a "kazatske" vos, farshteyt zikh, hot gornit vos tsu ton mit
Yerushalmer yidn). Tsi hot eymitser a mol gehert dem vort oder veyst vi
s'heyst dem tants?
Ayerer,
Michoel Ronn
Brooklyn, NY
9)----------------------------------------------------
Date: December 5, 2005
Subject: Re: megayer zayn
First of all, thanks to Amitai Halevi's response, and to Leizer Gillig's
very lengthy reply. But one last question, before I stop that subject: You
were only referring to "a ger" as a man. If it's a woman, does one still
say "a ger" and "zi"? There are female forms for some things in Yiddish,
e.g. a yid, a yidene, a rebe, a rebezin etc. I even read once that there is
a female form for goy, namely goyte. Did anyone hear of that, too? A
further question to Leizer Gillig and other scularly oriented Yiddish
speakers: When you talk to hasidic friends, and they tell you something
about "mekadesh zayn" or "makhalel shabes zayn", do you always understand
them, or do you sometimes have to ask for an explanation, or look the words
up? To me, these words sound very much more beautiful than "khasene hobn"
or "dertsien", and I would always try to use them in Yiddish. But maybe
that's because I'm enthusiastic about approximately anything;-), and it's
something different when you hear it all your life, when you're very
familiar with things. But I guess that goes for everything, not just the
language...
Best,
Felicitas Payk
Hannover, Germany
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End of Mendele Vol. 15.036
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